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Zuiderzee, Holland, on March 25, 1942:

Case number:

ACUFO-1942-03-25-ZUIDERSEE-1

Summary:

In 1962, at the end of article about the infamous “Foo-Fighters”, Gordon Creighton, in the British ufology magazine Flying Saucer Review of which he was the editor, tells that “... a very early report has reached us through the courtesy of Miss O. M. Beaton, of Vancouver. Pilot Officer Roman Sobinski, later Captain of a bomber aircraft in 301R.A.F. Squadron and now living in Richmond, British Columbia, states that on March 25, 1942, at midnight he saw for about five minutes a round disc or sphere that was following his aircraft over the Zuider Zee, Holland, when returning from a bombing raid on Essen. His tail gunner reported it first and when Sobinski had confirmed the sighting and saw that the object was closing in on his aircraft fast he gave instructions to fire on it. Several rounds appeared to enter the object, but made no impression on it. The object was of a glowing orange colour. It appeared at 15,000 feet about 100 to 200 yards away. Its speed was estimated at 180 m.p.h., but disappeared at an estimated speed of 1,000 m.p.m.”

From then on, this case appeared in several UFO books in various countries, without more information and often without the above source reference.

Circa 2020, US ufologist Dr. Richard F. Haines explained on a History website that on August 26, 1980, Seattle ufologist Robert Gribble sent him a letter and an audio tape; which contained a number of interviews, with different pilots, of different sightings.

One of the sightings took place in June 1942, it was a “Foo-Fighters” sighting over Ruhr area of Germany, by Flight-Lieutenant Roman Sabinski - or Sobinski - of Squadron 301.

This is my transcript of the testimony on the tape:

“In 1942 in June, we went on a bombing mission er... I was flying bombers, Wellingtons, over Ruhr, or otherwise so-called “Happy Valley”, and the trip was... we perform everything what was necessary and dropped the bombs on the target and on the way back while we were flying over the, er... Zuider Sea, which is er... the part of Holland, my rear gunner reported an aircraft approaching from the rear.”

“I told him that if this object comes too close then we'll have to open the fire on him. And my idea was that perhaps it was a German fighter aircraft equipped with a searchlight in the nose. So when this thing came close I wouldn't take any chance on it and told my rear gunner to give him a blast.”

“So then he opened the fire on him, maybe 200 yards. And at that distance, this object was almost the size of the Moon which was also visible at the same time. Maybe possibly a bit bigger. We used the tracers in the machine guns, there are four machine in the rear turret and while this rear gunner was shooting we could follow exactly the trajectory of the shells which were entering the... that particular target.”

“Now the peculiar thing about it was that those were just going in and that was the end of it, they wouldn't fall down. And the so-called tracers, those tracers would just enter and that was it.”

“Now for, that lasted for possibly, I don't know, maybe two minutes. And after that time, the... er, this shining object suddenly changed the position and at a terrific speed moved over to our port side almost at the same distance, about 200 yards from the wing. Then it stayed there, of course then both the rear gunner and the front gunner opened the fire on my order and I could see the tracers entering the target again from under two angles at which I was sure that this was pretty close to 200 yards then, because you could see the angle of, er... crossing the tracers. After a while it moved up, it took off at a fantastic speed at the... at least 45 degrees angle and they just disappeared between the stars.”

“On doing the debriefing, which we always set up after each combat mission, the officer who was receiving this made a joke as of how many beers I had.”

Richard Haines also explained that the tape was made from a vinyl long play record produced by a company named “UFOs Anonymous”, 2148 McKid Crescent, Northeast, Calgary 62, Alberta, Canada.

Searching for the date of this original recording, I found out it should have been about 1969, as this “UFOs Anonymous” did publish some advertising for their recordings in the British ufology magazine Flying Saucer Review in March and May 1969.

In the 2020's, author Graeme Rendall indicated that the tail gunner was Sergeant Stanislaw Sep-Szarzynski, and the nose turret gunner was Sergeant Krzysztof Grabowski.

Data:

Temporal data:

Geographical data:

Witnesses data:

Ufology data:

Classifications:

Sources:

[Ref. gcn1:] GORDON CREIGHTON:

[Ref. bph1:] BRINSLEY LE POER TRENCH:

The source “74” is described as “Creighton, Gordon W., 'Foo Fighters', FSR Vol 8 N 2, (March-April 1962) pp, 11-15.”

(Ref. uas1:) "UFO ANONYMOUS" VINYL INTERVIEW:

“In 1942, in June, we went on a bombing mission er... I was flying bombers, Wellingtons, over Ruhr, or otherwise so-called "Happy Valley", and the trip was... we perform everything what was necessary and dropped the bombs on the target and on the way back while we were flying over the, er... Zuider Sea, which is er... the part of Holland, my rear gunner reported an aircraft approaching from the rear. I told him that if this object comes too close then we'll have to open the fire on him. And my idea was that perhaps it was a German fighter aircraft equipped with a searchlight in the nose. So when this thing came close I wouldn't take any chance on it and told my rear gunner to give him a blast. So then he opened the fire on him, maybe 200 yards. And at that distance, this object was almost the size of the Moon which was also visible at the same time. Maybe possibly a bit bigger. We used the tracers in the machine guns, there are four machine in the rear turret and while this rear gunner was shooting we could follow exactly the trajectory of the shells which were entering the... that particular target. Now the peculiar thing about it was that those were just going in and that was the end of it, they wouldn't fall down. And the so-called tracers, those tracers would just enter and that was it. Now for, that lasted for possibly, I don't know, maybe two minutes. And after that time, the... er, this shining object suddenly changed position and at a terrific speed moved over to our port side, almost at the same distance, about 200 yards from the wing. Then it stayed there, of course then both the rear gunner and the front gunner opened the fire on my order and I could see the tracers entering the target again from under two angles at which I was sure that this was pretty close to 200 yards then, because you could see the angle of, er... crossing the tracers. After a while it moved up, it took off at a fantastic speed at the... at least 45 degrees angle and they just disappeared between the stars.”

[Ref. hdt1:] "HENRY DURRANT":

[Ref. tfo1:] GIANFRANCO DE TURRIS AND SEBASTIANO FUSCO:

These authors say that on March 25, 1942 at Zuiderzee in Holland, a bright orange light arrived in front of the tail machine gun of an RAF bomber, commanded by pilot Captain Roman Sobinski. While the order to open fire was given at a firing distance of 150 meters, the light did not seem to be disturbed. Finally, it left at very high speed.

[Ref. mbd1:] MICHEL BOUGARD:

The author indicates that on March 25, 1942, the Romanian commander Sobinski was returning from an aerial bombardment that he had just completed above the city of Essen, when suddenly he saw less than 150 m from his plane a luminous object which was heading straight towards him. Believing it was an enemy weapon, Sobinski was about to retaliate when this object avoided the aircraft and headed towards the ocean.

[Ref. ibl1:] ILLOBRAND VON LUDWIGER:

[Ref. lwr1:] DR. LOUIS WINKLER:

[Ref. gvo1:] GODELIEVE VAN OVERMEIRE:

(Ref. kre1:) KEVIN RANDLE AND RUSS ESTES:

The authors indicate that during WW II, a Royal Air Force bomber on a mission to Germany was paced by a luminous orange globe or disc for several minutes. The tail gunner was the first to see it and reported it to the pilot who also saw it. As it closed in to within 100 or 200 yards, the gunner fired at it, without apparent effect, and the object then went away in a burst of speed estimated as more than 1000 miles per hour.

[Ref. lhh1:] LARRY HATCH:

[Ref. dwn1:] DOMINIQUE WEINSTEIN:

French ufologist Dominique Weinstein compiled a catalog of the cases of UFOs observed from aircraft. The first case in February 2001 (6th edition) catalog appears as:

The source “357” is referenced at the end of the catalog as:

[Ref. jck1:] JEROME CLARK:

The author indicates that among the first sightings of the “Foo-Fighters”, there was one on March 25, 1942, near midnight, by a Royal Air Force bomber crew over Holland. On their way back from a raid on Essen, Germany, the tail gunner spotted a luminous orange disc or sphere following the plane and appeared to be getting closer. The tail gunner notified the pilot, who saw the light moving in to within 100 or 200 feet. Then the gunner fired several rounds. He was certain that he had hit his target, but the object seemed unaffected. After a short time, it shot away at a speed that the startled and confused crew estimated to be close to 1,000 mph.

[Ref. mmn1:] UFOLOGY BULLETIN "MICHIGAN MUFON":

[Ref. mgr1:] MICHEL GRANGER:

[Ref. nip1:] "THE NICAP WEBSITE":

[Ref. kce1:] EGON KRAGEL ET YVES COUPRIE:

[Ref. pmy1:] PAT MALONEY:

[Ref. kre2:] KEVIN D. RANDLE:

[Ref. rhs1:] DR. RICHARD HAINES:

On www.wyominghistoryday.org/theme-topics/collections/items/audio-recording-audio-interview-pilot-sobinskis-ufo-sighting, we are told that the interview was in “a program called 'UFOs Anonymous'”.

The audio stream credited “Citation Richard F. Haines papers, Collection No. 12722, Box 1, American Heritage Center, University of Wyoming” and is available there at digitalcollections.uwyo.edu/ahcpublic/UFO/1942_Sobinski_ahcav_12722.mp3

[Ref. jmd1:] JOEL MESNARD:

The author indicates that in a first source, the most detailed, Bob Gribble, indicates that in June 1942, and not in March 1942, Flight Lieutenant Ronan Savinsky, Polish pilot assigned to Squadron 301 of the RAF, composed of Polish crews and equipped in 1942 with Vickers Wellingtons - while the second source speaks of a Handley Page Hampden - fired without effect on an unusual object.

He says it happened over the Zuider Zee and the plane was a twin engine plane.

Mesnard comments that the case is “poorly documented, which is not surprising” given the circumstances, and that this prohibits considering it as “anything other than clues”.

Mesnard indicates that the original source could be a 78 rpm record titled UFO, which he says still needs to be confirmed.

He gives as a first source “UFO Journal, publication of the Mufon”, page 18, and as a second source “UFO and the National Security State”, by Richard Dolan, page 29.

[Ref. grl1:] GRAEME RENDALL:

[Ref. grl2:] GRAEME RENDALL:

Author Graeme Rendall wrote in the 2020's:

[Ref. eoh1:] "EYES ON UFOs" UFOLOGY DOCUMENTARY COLLECTION:

In this collection of digitized footage, interview, we find an audio-only interview presented as “Major Raymond Sabinski talks about a Foo Fighter encounter in the sky over the Zuiderzee in The Netherlands, June 1942”. Unfortunately the origin and date of the audio recording is not indicated.

This is my transcript of the audio recording:

[Ref. ekl1:] EGON KRAGEL:

This author indicates that a first demonstration of the “Foo-Fighters” of WWII occurred on June 25, 1942, reported by Lieutenant Roman Sabinski, a soldier of the Polish division attached to the RAF, later commander of the 301e bomber squadron of the British Royal Air force.

The author says that that evening, the weather was mild, the sky perfectly clear. Lieutenant Sabinski was returning from a mission of bombing strategic German sites in the Ruhr Valley. Suddenly, the tail gunner informed him that an enemy plane had just chased them. Sabinski left his seat to observe the intruder, and he saw “a very bright light” on their tail. Sabinski told the gunner: “If it gets any closer, open fire.” Sabinski was worried, thinking it was a German fighter that had placed a light on his nose; which was unusual, as enemy aircraft were usually equipped with lights on their wings.

The “object” was getting closer and closer, and it appeared it was not a plane but a round “thing”, about the size of a full moon as seen from the ground. It was not white, it seemed to be made of shiny copper, “rather dull like a setting sun”, with imprecise, vaporous contours.

Sabinski ordered “Take it down!”, and four machine guns then fire in concert, with the tracer bullets hitting their target perfectly. But “they penetrate the object without coming out”. And instead of falling back to the ground, they vanish! The crew is appalled. The strange phenomenon does not seem to be affected at all by the heavy fire it has just suffered. Still intact, the sphere then moves at a prodigious speed and comes to position itself at 180 meters of the wing of the bomber. The gunners of head and tail empty again their weapons on the intruder. Without any result. Sabinski recalled: “I went back to the cockpit, took over the controls and tried to avoid the intruder because I was really worried about it. I also had no idea what it was. I maneuvered quite violently, but the object remained stuck to the wing of my aircraft. That means it was moving extremely fast so it wouldn't let go of us.”

Then suddenly, the object lept and preceded the bomber: “It sped by at a prodigious speed, at an angle of 45 degrees, to merge among the stars.”

Once he had landed, Sabinski reported his observation to his unit's intelligence office and was greeted with loud laughter. “How many beers have you had?” he was asked. Later, while talking with a captain of the Wellington bomber unit, Sabinski learned that other pilots had experienced the same phenomenon. But these men preferred to keep quiet to avoid the mocking and humiliating remarks of their superiors.

The author indicates that the sources are UFO NYT, September 1962, page 186, Henry Durrant, The Black Book of Flying Saucers, Robert Laffont, 1970, page 76, UFODATA Magazine, September-October 2007, page 35, Keith Chester, Strange Company, Anomalist Books, 2007.

Aircraft information:

The Vickers-Armstrongs Wellington was a British twin-engine, long-range, medium bomber designed during the mid-1930s at Brooklands in Weybridge, Surrey, U-K. The Wellington was used as a night bomber in the early years of the WWII, performing as one of the principal bombers used by Bomber Command.

Its use within the Bomber Command of the R.A.F. started September 1939. It had no airborne radar before late 1944.

For its defense against the German fighter planes, it carried 7.62 mm M1919 Browning machine guns, originally 2 in nose the turret, 2 in the tail turret, 2 in waist positions.

As the report says this Wellington had 4 machine guns in the rear turret, we can deduce that it was a Wellington Mark III or a later version, those having been fitted with 4 machine guns in the tail turret.

Discussion:

Reporting witness name:

In the first available version, by Gordon Creighton, the name is Roman Sobinski. In the recorded interview, it is Raymond Sabinski or Sobinski.

In the interview, the accent of the witness is clearly indicating someone whose mother tongue was not English. This is concordant with the name.

The first name “Roman” can very well have been changed to “Raymond”, for example when he migrated to Canada.

Sobinski or Sabinski? I would even suggest that it was originally “Zabinski”. This is a common Polish name.

On a copy of the “Eyes on UFOs” interview to another Youtube account, someone wrote as comment: “Sobinski Roman Konstanty, a Polish fighter pilot for Great Britain. Born 01.05.1916 in Poland and died 26.08.1995 in USA.”

On the 1977 NARCAP case file by Dr. Richard Haines, the name is spelled “Roman (Ray) Sobinski.”

In the U-K. National Archives, I found a naturalization certificate for “Roman Zdzislaw Jerzy Sabinski, from Poland”, “resident in Manchester”. The certificate is BNA36162, the Reference is HO 334/387/36162, the date is 21 January 1955.

Case date:

In the first version, by Gordon Creighton, that date was given as March 25, 1942. In the recorded interview, the witness says it was in June 1942.

The unit must have been the Polish Squadron No. 301 “Land of Pomerania” of the Bomber command.

I was able to collect on WWII Historical websites that the Polish Squadron No. 301 raided Essen on these dates at least during 1942:

March 25/26 or 26-27. The raid missed Essen, hitting only some nearby houses.
April 10-11. Aircraft were Wellington Mark IV's.
June 1-2.
June 2-3, the squadron took part in this second thousand-bomber raid on Essen.
June 5-6.

So the historical context does not contradict the report, however, I was unable to determine which date was the exact date.

Date of the audio recording:

Richard Haines explained what the original source or the audio recording was: an LP vinyl by a company named “UFOs Anonymous.”

I found out that this company advertised in the British Flying Saucer Review in Volume 15 No 2 in March - April 1969, and in Volume 15, No. 3, in May - June 1969:

So the interview was probably recorded circa 1969 or a few years before 1969.

The explanation:

None of the potential ordinary explanations that sometimes apply to UFO sighting reports could fit this report.

Of course if one wants hard evidence such as a fragment of extraterrestrial craft, there is none here.

So far, there does not seem to be available contemporary official document about the sighting. But it does not mean that there was none either.

Evaluation:

Possible extraterrestrial craft.

Sources references:

* = Source is available to me.
? = Source I am told about but could not get so far. Help needed.

• [gcn1] * "Foo Fighters", article by Gordon Creighton in the ufology magazine Flying Saucer Review, U-K., Volume 8, No 2, March - April, page 15, 1962.
• [bph1] * "The Flying Saucer Story", book by Brinsley Le Poer Trench, Neville - Spearman publishers, U-K., pp 64-65, 1966.
• [uas1] * Double vinyl LP record produced by "UFOs Anonymous", 2148 McKid Crescent, Nord-Est, Calgary 62, Alberta, Canada, vers 1969.
• [hdt1] * "Le Livre Noir des Soucoupes Volantes", book by "Henry Durrant" (pseudonym of Didier Serres), Robert Laffont publishers, France, page 76, 1970.
• [rpi1] ? "Visitatori dallo Spazio", (Visitors from space), book by Roberto Pinotti, Armenia publishers, Italy, page 36, 1973.
• [tfo1] * "Obiettivo sugli UFO - Fotostoria dei dischi volanti", book by Gianfranco de Turris and Sebastiano Fusco, Mediterranee publishers, Italy, page 35, 1975.
• [mbd1] * "La Chronique des O.V.N.I.", book by Michel Bougard, Jean-Pierre Delarge - France Loisirs publishers France, page 260, 1977.
• [ibl1] * "MUFON CES Bericht - No 06 - 1979 - Ungewöhnliche Eigenschaften nichtidentifizierbarere Lichterscheinungen", study by "I. Brand" (Illobrand von Ludwiger), PhD, Tübingen University, Germany, Mutual UFO Network - Central European section (MUFON-CES), pp 71-72, Fall 1978.
• [ldl1] ? Ufology magazine Lumières Dans La Nuit (LDLN), France, No 330, December 1994.
• [tps1] ? "Kosmisch Netwerk: het UFO-mysterie in kaart gebracht", book by Theo Paijmans, Ankh Hermes publisher, Holland, pp 98-99, 1996.
• [lwr1] * "Catalog/database, and analysis, of pre-1947 'UFO-like phenomena'", report by Dr. Louis Winkler, astronomer, Pennsylvania State University, for the Fund for UFO Research (FUFOR), USA, 1982-1984.
• [gvo1] * "Chronologie OVNI", electronic catalogue compiled by Godelieve Van Overmeire, Belgium, circa 1999.
• [kre1] * "Spaceships of the Visitors", book by Kevin D. Randle and Russ Estes, Simon & Schuster publishers, USA, page 45, 2000.
• [lhh1] * "*U* Computer Database", ufology database by Larry Hatch, USA, circa 2002.
• [dwn1] * "Unidentified Aerial Phenomena - Eighty years of pilot sightings - Catalog of Military, Airliner, Private Pilots' Sightings from 1916 to 2000", catalog compiled by Dominique F. Weinstein, NARCAP International Technical Advisor, France, 6th edition, February 2001.
• [jck1] * "Strange Skies - Pilot Encounters with UFOs", book by Jerome Clark, Citadel Press publishers, USA, page 7, 2003.
• [mmn1] * "Mysteries of Space and Sky V Continues to be a Premiere Venue", conference report by Bill Murphy, in the Michigan MUFON ufology newsletter of the Michigan Mutual UFO Network, Michigan, USA, page 10, January 2004.
• [kcr1] ? "Strange Company - Military Encounters with UFOs in World War II", book by Keith Chester, Anomalist Book publishers, USA, pp 23-25, 2007.
• [mgr1] * "Les énigmatiques 'foo-fighters'", article by Michel Granger, in Monde Inconnu Magazine, France, No. 327, August September 2007.
• [nip1] * "UFO Sighting Chronology - 1939-1945; The WWII Years & "Foo-Fighters"", chronology on the ufology website The NICAP Website, USA, created December 18, 2006, updated December 5 2017, at https://www.nicap.org/chronos/1939-1945.htm.
• [kce1] * "OVNIS, Enquête sur un secret d'état", book by Egon Kragel and Yves Couprie, Le Cherche Midi publishers, France, 2010.
• [pmy1] * "UFOs in Wartime - What They Didn't Want You To Know", book by Mack Maloney, Penguin Publishing Group publishers, U-K., 2011.
• [rdn1] ? "UFO and the National Security State", book by Richard Dolan, Keyhole Publishing Company publisherr, USA, page 29, 2013.
• [kre2] * "The Government UFO Files - The Conspiracy of Cover-Up", book by Kevin D. Randle, Visible Ink Press publishers, USA, page 1, 2014.
• [rhs1] * "Audio recording of an audio interview of pilot Sobinski's UFO sighting", audio file and caption with credit to Dr. Richard Haines, on the website Wyoming History Day, USA, circa 2020, at www.wyominghistoryday.org/theme-topics/collections/items/audio-recording-audio-interview-pilot-sobinskis-ufo-sighting
• [jmd1] * "Affrontements Extraterrestres", book by Joël Mesnard, Le Mercure Dauphinois publishers, France, page 25, 2021.
• [grl1] * "The Foo Fighters: Today's pilots encounters with UAP are nothing new", article by Graeme Rendall, USA, April 15, 2021, at https://thedebrief.org/the-foo-fighters-todays-pilots-encounters-with-uap-are-nothing-new
• [grl2] * Post by Graeme Rendall on the blog thedebrief.org, not dated, circa 2020, at https://thedebrief.org/80-years-ago-the-royal-air-force-saw-flying-objects-they-couldnt-explain
• [eou1] * "Major Raymond Sabinski talks about a Foo Fighter encounter in the sky over the Zuiderzee in The Netherlands, June 1942", audio file published by the Eyes On Cinema @RealEOC presents: Eyes On UFOs ufology documentary account on Youtube, 2022, at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-DJQFjeKQ
• [ekl1] * "UFOs: The Twelve Files that the Pentagon Cannot Explain", book by Egon Kragel, Max Milo publisher, 2022.

[Ref. mmy1:] MACK MALONEY:

File history:

Authoring:

Changes history:

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This page was last updated on July 16, 2024.