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Formiche di Grosseto, Italy, on October 10, 1936:

Case number:

ACUFO-1936-10-10-FORMICHEDIGROSSETO-1

Summary:

An article by Ernesto Thayaht in the British ufology magazine Flying Saucer Review of July - August 1955 reported three sightings in Italy; one of them was that of an alleged UFO - plane encounter.

The article said that this case, like the two others it reported, had been recorded by the C.I.R.N.O.S. (“Centro Independente Raccolta Notizie Observazioni Spaziali”), based in Marina di Pietrasannta (Lucca), Viale Roma, Fiumetto, Italy, and that they “have been carefully verified, and the witnesses are known to be personally reliable.”

The case I am dealing with here was reported like this:

This sighting took place in 1936, before flying saucers had been heard of; when aeroplanes were still rudimentary, helicopters were in the experimental stage, and jet propulsion just a dream.

Captain Mario Rossi, who in 1936 was flight instructor at the Italian military Air Base of Ortebello, makes this claim: “On the night of October 10, 1936, I was flying my Idro S.62 Bis, with three other machines, of the same type. When I was at 3,800 metres over Cape Talamone I noticed an unusual light ahead of my plane, which for a moment I mistook for the exhaust gas of another plane of my group.”

“But I realized this was not the case when I saw that the speed of the object was greater than that of an S.62, and that the position of the “flaming exhaust” did not correspond to the exhaust in the type of motor installed in this aircraft.”

“I went on following the unknown light, which seemed to be on a higher level than my machine. I could not see its shape, because of the blinding light shining out from the center of the object, and the short, shooting flames that rushed out on both sides. In size it seemed to be about twice the diameter of a full moon.”

“All at once I found myself caught in a very dense cloud, from which I emerged, after 12 minutes instrument flying, to find I was over Portoferraio (Island of Elba). This sighting occurred over the rock islands of Formiche di Grosseto at 4.15 a.m. The object was flying at nearly 440 m.p.h., and was going due north.”

Data:

Temporal data:

Geographical data:

Witnesses data:

Ufology data:

Classifications:

Sources:

[Ref. fsr1:] UFOLOGy MAGAZINE "FLYING SAUCER REVIEW":

An article in the British Flying Saucer Review for July - August 1955 told of 3 Italian sightings; one of them was of an alleged UFO - aircraft encounter:

The article said that this case, like the two others it reported, were registered by the C.I.R.N.O.S. (“Centro Independente Raccolta Notizie Observazioni Spaziali”), based at Marina di Pietrasannta (Lucca), Viale Roma, Fiumetto, Italy, and that they “have been carefully checked, and the witnesses are known to be personally reliable.”

The case that I am dealing with here was reported like this:

[Ref. gso1:] GIUSEPPE STILO:

This Italian ufologist indicates that the only "Foo-Fighter" type episode in Italy sufficiently documented at the time was the one told in 1954 by Ernesto Thayat, one of the pioneers of Italian ufology, from a captain of the Regia Aeronautica, Mario Rossi, which took place on October 10, 1936, aboard his seaplane S.62 bis, and which saw a "rising light" on Cape Talamone.

[Ref. prt1:] JAN ALDRICH - "PROJECT 1947":

Circa 1999, ufologist Jan Aldrich prepared a catalogue of summaries of early cases of aircraft - UFO encounters that were sometimes previously unpublished or little-known. This was to help French ufologist Dominique Weinstein in compiling the latter's catalogue of aircraft - UFO encounters. Aldrich explained that as Dominique Weinstein has many of the primary documents, the summaries are very short.

OTHER SOURCES:

A CUN (Centro Ufologico Nazionale, Italy) sightings list on the Web in the 2010's says only:

Some Italian UFO Websites tell of the sighting, generally without additional information. For example:

(Found 2021 at: https://massimilianoaiello.blogspot.com/2013/01/lavvistamento-ufo-del-10-ottobre-1936.html )

I.e.:

[Ref. ali1:] ALFREDO LISSONI:

[Ref. rpi1:] ROBERTO PINOTTI:

The author indicates that in 1936, Mario Rossi, then captain of the Regia Aeronautica, was a flight instructor at the Orbetello base. He reported eighteen years later:

“On the night of October 10, 1936, I was flying on my hydro S.62 Bis, in formation with three others from the same group. While we were 3800 meters above Cape Talamone, I noticed a unusual light in front of my plane, which I thought for a moment was due to engine exhaust from another plane in our formation. However, I immediately understood that this could not be the case, as soon as I noticed that the speed of the object in front of me was much greater than that of a s.62 and that the position of what I had thought was the exhaust gases did not match those of the engine installed on these aircraft. I continued to follow the unknown light, which seemed rather above my plane. I could not make out its shape because of the blinding light coming from the center of the mysterious object and the short flames which came out from both sides. As for its size, it seemed to be twice the diameter of a full moon. Suddenly, I found myself inside a thick bank of clouds, from which I emerged, after twelve minutes of instrument flight, to find myself above Portoferraio (island of Elba). This sighting took place on the rocky islands known as Formiche di Grosseto at 4:15 a.m. The mysterious light was flying at least 700 kilometers per hour and heading north.”

The author recalls that at the time of this observation, no aircraft was capable of reaching similar speeds (a record obtained only by Francesco Agello's MC72 about two years earlier) while helicopters were still in the experimental phase and that jet propulsion was far from being concretely applied.

[Ref. jnf1:] JAMES NEFF "RENSE.COM":

[Ref. rpi2:] ROBERTO PINOTTI AND ALFREDO LISSONI:

The authors indicate that they found the following “official report of 1936” in 1996, from anonymous and corroborating sources, and were keen to verify what it was. They then found it in the CUN archives: in 1936, Mario Rossi, then captain of the Regia Aeronautica, was a flight instructor at the Orbetello base; and he reported 18 years later:

“On the night of October 10, 1936, I was flying on my hydro S.62 Bis, in formation with three others from the same group. While we were 3800 meters above Cape Talamone, I noticed a unusual light in front of my plane, which I thought for a moment was due to engine exhaust from another plane in our formation. However, I immediately understood that this could not be the case, as soon as I noticed that the speed of the object in front of me was much greater than that of a s.62 and that the position of what I had thought was the exhaust gases did not match those of the engine installed on these aircraft.”

“I continued to follow the unknown light, which seemed rather above my plane. I could not make out its shape because of the blinding light coming from the center of the mysterious object and the short flames which came out from both sides. As for its size, it seemed to be twice the diameter of a full moon.”

“Suddenly, I found myself inside a thick bank of clouds, from which I emerged, after twelve minutes of instrument flight, to find myself above Portoferraio (island of Elba). This sighting took place on the rocky islands known as Formiche di Grosseto at 4:15 a.m. The mysterious light was flying at least 700 kilometers per hour and heading north.”

The authors recall that in 1936, there was no aircraft capable of reaching similar speeds, except the record, for the time, reached only by Francesco Agello's MC12 about two years earlier, and that helicopters were still in the experimental phase and jet propulsion was far from being concretely applied.

Aircraft information:

The Savoia-Marchetti S.62 was a bomber and reconnaissance seaplane built in Italy in the 1920s, and used mainly by the Regia Aeronautica:

It had 4 7.7 mm caliber machine guns, two each in the nose and midship gunners cockpits, and could carry 600 kg of bombs.

Discussion:

Talamone, not Talamonore, is a town and a cape in Tuscany, Italy, on the west coast of central Italy, but the sighting, per [fsr1] quoting the witness, “occurred over the rock islands of Formiche di Grosseto”.

There was a lighthouse on the island, built in 1901 and restored in 1919 by the Regia Marina. But it was probably not the cause of the sighting.

(https://www.marina.difesa.it/cosa-facciamo/per-la-difesa-sicurezza/fari/Pagine/2136.aspx )

The report, in my opinion, looks a lot like the report of a meteor.

Evaluation:

Probable meteor.

Sources references:

* = Source is available to me.
? = Source I am told about but could not get so far. Help needed.

• [raa1] * Rivista Aeronautica, magazine of the Italian air forces, Italy.
• [fsr1] * "Three Sightings in Italy", article by Ernesto Thayaht, in the ufology magazine Flying Saucer Review (FSR), U-K, Volume 1, No 3, page 6, July - August 1955.
• [gso1] * "Il ritorno di foo fighters, article by Giuseppe Stilo, in the ufology magazine Rivista UFO, Centro Italiano Studi Ufologici (CISU), Italy, No. 20, page 9, July 1977.
• [prt1] * "Aircraft UFO Encounters Summaries From Project 1947 Research", catalogue compiled by Jan Aldrich, on the ufology Website Project 1947, USA, version 2, October 9, 1999, at http://www.project1947.com/47cats/acupdt.htm
• [ali1] * "UFO Sightings Italia", article by Alfredo Lissoni, Centro Ufologico Nazionale (CUN), Number 2, March 2002, was at http://www.cun-italia.net
• [ali1] * "UFO Sightings Italia", article by Alfredo Lissoni, on the ufology Website Notizie UFO, Italy, No 2, March 2002, was at http://www.notizieufo.com/usi2.htm
• [rpi1] * "Oggetti Volanti Non Identificati", book by Roberto Pinotti, Arnoldo Mondadori, Italy, 2003.
• [jnf1] * "This Month In UFO History", Web page compiled by James Neff for the UFO Website Rense.com, USA, 2003, at https://rense.com/general42/tm_oct.htm
• [rpi2] * "Luci nel cielo", book by Roberto Pinotti and Alfredo Lissoni, Mondadori publishers, Italy, 2014.
• [rpi1b] * "Ufo Italia: Da Mussolini al Pentagono", book by Roberto Pinotti, Vallecchi-Firenze publishers, Italy, 2024.

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This page was last updated on July 14, 2024.