Quelques unes des photographies de l'extra-terrestre que le Dr. Reed aurait assomé et de l'objet qui flottait au dessus du sol dans une clairière avoisinante ont été publiées par Art Bell.
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Le Frozen ET Burrito Blues par un fan d'Art Bell, Jeff Kolby de Tichigan, WI,
montage comportant des extrait de l'interview ci-dessous.
Voici une transcription de l'émission d'Art Bell du 11 Novembre à laquelle le Dr Jonathan Reed, Robert Raith et Whitley Strieber étaient invités à raconter et commenter une histoire incroyable.
La transcription originale est de John Grumpis, la traduction est de Patrick Gross.
AB = Art Bell
DR = Dr. Reed
RR = Robert Raith
WS = Whitley Streiber
AB: Ce soir, j'ai avec moi Robert Raith, qui était l'homme qui m'a envoyé ces photographies incroyables et une cassette vidéo d'une rencontre étrange que le docteur Jonathan Reed a eue il y a environ 2 ans. Et vous allez entendre l'histoire entière dans un moment. Pour vérification de cette histoire, j'ai scanné ses photographies de 35 mm moi-même. J'ai ici ces photographies et je les tiens devant la caméra, vous pouvez les voir maintenant Ainsi vous pouvez savoir que celles-ci quoi qu'elles soient ne sont pas des images de synthèse Ce sont des photographies Kodak d'une rencontre avec un alien. Vous saurez tout à ce sujet sous peu.
(Interruption)
AB: ... J'ai ces photos d'une rencontre très sérieuse et les personnes impliquées vont tout vous dire à son sujet. Je pense que la plupart d'entre vous connaissent déjà l'histoire que nous sommes sur le point de raconter. J'ai reçu un appel téléphonique d'un jeune monsieur, Robert Raith, vendredi night/Saturday matin passé qui m'a raconté une histoire étonnante d'une rencontre avec un alien et il dit en avoir la preuve. Bien, je reçois beaucoup de d'appels de ce genre, mais néanmoins, j'ai écouté l'histoire et dit, "envoyez la preuve! " Et bien j'ai obtenu une cassette vidéo de la rencontre. J'ai obtenu un total de six photographies de 35 millimètres et un résumé l'histoire elle-même. Je veux dire, cette preuve est devant vous je montre ces photos, je les ai publié également sur notre site où vous les trouverez maintenant si vous pouvez entrer dans notre site, je ne peux pas le faire moi-même, il semble qu'il soit saturé par les visites en ce moment, ou sous attaques. Maintenant, nous allons présenter également Whitley Streiber. Whitley est un contacté et en sait long sur ce genre de choses. Et Whitley va nous écouter et puis poser des questions, en même temps que moi. Procédons. Tout d'abord, Robert Raith, êtes-vous là?
RR: Je suis là, Art.
AB: Ok, Robert est la personne qui m'a téléphoné dans la nuit de Vendredi à Samedi dernier. Est-ce correct Robert?
RR: C'est exact!
AB: Ok, également avec nous, nous avons le docteur Jonathan Reed. Jonathan?
DR: Bonsoir, M. Bell! C'est un honneur de parler avec vous!
AB: Merci. A l'écoute avec nous pour le moment nous avons Whitley Streiber à San Antonio, Texas. Whitley?
WS: Oui, je suis là, Art!
AB: Parfait! Docteur, je pense que vous pouvez raconter, ou présenter l'histoire de ce qui s'est produit. De vous, commençant à la fin, je voudrais que vous nous disiez ce qui s'est produit. Et tout d'abord, quand c'était?
DR: Bien, ceci a eu lieu approximativement il y a 2 ans, en octobre 1996 et dans l'état de Washington dans la région des cascades. Je faisait une randonnée, de jour, avec mon chien. Et nous avons parcouru une heure et demi à deux heures de marche depuis l'endroit où j'avais garé ma voiture, vers le haut d'une vallée assez connue, j'avais pris une vallée latérale. C'est une région assez montagneuse, mais on y fait de très belle randonnées. Le Nord-Ouest de la côte du Pacifique est une belle région. Je ne sais pas si vous y avez déjà été?
AB: Oui, je connais!
DR: C'est un pays superbe.
AB: C'est magnifique. J'y ait déjà été, pas en randonnée, mais je m'imagine très bien la nature sauvage. Vous aviez un sac à dos, j'imagine?
DR: Exact! J'avais un sac à dos. J'avais quelques rations journalières. J'avais mes appareils photos avec moi. C'est toujours interesssanr, avec tous les animaux sauvages qu'on peut rencontrer. Des cerfs, des renards, tout ça...
AB: Donc vous ne chassiez pas avec un fusil mais avec des appareils photos.
DR: Absolument! Je ne chasse pas. Mais c'est un endroit superbe pour emmener aussi son chien. Parce qu'en ville il n'y a pas beaucoup d'endroits pour le laisser courir.
AB: Quel genre de chein est-ce, était-ce?
DR: Suzy était un Golden Retriever, de 7 ans.
AB: J'ai eu plusieurs Goldens. Ils sont merveilleux. ... Donc vous voilà le 19 Octobre. Matin? Après midi?
DR: En fait il était à peu près trois heures de l'après midi.
AB: Trois heures de l'après midi, et vous étiez bien engagé sur ce chemin?
DR: Assez, oui, je dirai a une heure et demi ou deux heures de l'endroit ou j'avais laissé ma voiture.
AB: Du point de départ. Donc vous étiez en quelque sorte au milieu de nulle part.
DR: Exactement!
AB: Très bien! Les premiers signes de ... Je pense que votre chien était devant vous en train de courir?
DR: Le chien était en pleine extase, reniflant les odeurs de la nature, vous voyez, ravi. Elle explore les moindres recoins, tout d'un coup elle file comme l'éclair, ce que les chiens font de temps en temps. ls partent à la poursuite d'un lapin ou d'un renard ou d'un cerf, même. Nous avions vu un cerf plus tôt. Ce genre de chose s'est déjà produite, sans incident. Cette fois j'ai remarqué qu'elle avait filé, et tout d'un coup elle se met à aboyer. Encore une fois, ce n'est pas quelque chose qui m'a inquiété beaucoup, les chiens et la ratons laveurs ne s'entendent pas.
AB: Vous imaginiez qu'elle avait coincé quelque chose.
DR: Oui, comme ça s'était déjà produit auparavant. Mais après les aboiements ont changé de ton. Ils sont passé d'aboiements de chien normaux, à des aboiements effrayés, presque de terreur. A ce moment j'ai pensé "oh oh, ça pourrait être un ours!" Parce que nous avons des ours dans l'Etat de Washington, alors j'ai pensé que c'est ça ou un chat sauvage. Nous avons quelques félins aussi. Donc je me suis quelque peu dépêché de suivre le sentier. Elle était totalement hors de vue alors. Elle devait être à 100 ou 150 mètres devant moi. Et les buissons étaient épais. Et il y avait une crête qui m'empechait de voir. En me hatant, je me suis dit que je devrais être prudent. J'ai ramassé une branche qui trainait au bord du sentier, de la taille d'une batte de baseball.
AB: You thought you might be walking into the arms of a bear rearing up or who knows?
DR: Exactly! And at that time, the dog's tone changed from barking to howling.
AB: You didn't take guns with you.
DR: No, I don't have a gun.
AB: Now, Suzy's howling.
DR: Suzy is howling and sounding like she's being mauled.
AB: Yeah, you can tell when a dog is in a fight for its life. It makes a very different sound.
DR: Right! And was almost a yelping versus a barking. At that point, I came up across the ridge and turned to my right and saw the dog completely surrounded by, what looked like, a furious moving target. The only way to describe it would be that the air around the subject that I was looking at was vibrating very, very fast.
AB: Vibrating!
DR: Almost like a paint shaker.
AB: Ok, I know what you mean. Sure! Very fast...
DR: The being was moving so fast, I could not make out exactly what I was looking at. At first, I thought it was a child. But then I knew it wasn't.
WS: When you say target... This is Whitley Streiber! ...what did you mean, a moving target?
DR: Well, it was vibrating so fast, my vision was targeted on it.
WS: Oh, I see!
AB: Yeah, in other words...
WS: It looked like a target...
AB: ...the analogy was good. The paint shaker where you just see a blur of movement? That's what he means.
DR: Exactly! At that point, I watched my dog grabbing onto the forearm of this being as the being grasped the snout of my dog, literally tearing the head off.
AB: God!
DR: And at that point, I was so emotional, that I literally yelled for the dog to let go, not realizing exactly what was happening and what I was looking at. And this was happening so quickly.
AB: You were trying to call off your dog.
DR: Right! And at that moment, this creature looked back at me and stopped. And that was the first time it quit vibrating. And it looked at me, turned its head down just a little bit, and gave me this look that could kill! Turned back to my dog, and at that point, my dog started to die.
AB: Now, started to die...
DR: I could tell that it was over.
AB: You were basing this on what? I mean, it started to die?
DR: Well, with having her head torn back.
AB: Oh, my!
DR: Literally, jaw exposed and her head torn back. This is all happening in seconds.
AB: I understand.
DR: At that point, I ran forward and I don't know where the logic came from. I don't know. There was no forethought. I literally struck with this bat, hitting the creature.
AB: When the creature stopped vibrating, at that point you had a clear, I presume, look at the creature's full body, and face, and arms and legs. And you saw the whole creature, really at that point.
DR: As clear as it could be under the circumstances.
RR: An important fact to remember too, and something Jonathan forgot to mention is the fact the dog actually was sucked into itself.
AB: Sucked into itself?
DR: It started to literally implode.
AB: And the alien at this point, what obviously is an alien according to the photographs, just stood there?
WS: It had better be an alien!
RR: Oh, it WAS an alien.
WS: We don't want these things living here, I don't think!
DR: He had stood there and kind of took a step back, looking at the spot where Suzy was. And at that point, turned, and at that point, looked toward me as I lunged at it.
AB: For those who don't have computers and have not yet seen the photograph, can you describe this creature for us?
DR: Yes! I've had a long time to look at what I was with and consider what category it would be in. And the physiology of it is similar to what people call the Gray. But yet, the facial structure, the actual skull structure, I believe is smaller.
AB: How tall was it?
DR: It was about 4 and a half feet tall.
AB: 4 and a half feet?
DR: Right, about 53 inches is what we finally measured.
WS: Would you describe its body as being graceful?
DR: Very, very fast.
WS: No, I mean in the way that it looked.
AB: The appearance of it.
WS: Did it have a graceful appearance, the body, or an angular one?
DR: Ah, very thin appendages. And when it moved, it moved with such speed, that I almost could not see some of the appendages during that time.
AB: Did it walk as we walk?
DR: It took a step backwards when I saw it. It literally was a step back.
AB: A step as we would imagine a human step?
DR: Yes! Now this all happened within 10 to 15 seconds. It was very quick.
AB: Of course!
DR: The eyes of the ET looked a lot like the Grays, angular, large, bulbous shape. But they were a different color. They were a pinkish, a dark pinkish in color.
WS: That's something that's described fairly often actually.
AB: Is it?
WS: Yeah! It's not much in the literature but in letters. You get a steady stream of letters describing that color.
AB: All right! Dr Reed, are you still? ...You are a psychiatrist, is that correct?
DR: Psychologist!
AB: Psychologist, all right.
DR: Used to be!
AB: Used to be. You are no longer practicing?
DR: No, I'm not.
AB: Were you practicing at the time this occurred?
DR: Research! I was a researcher.
AB: You were a researcher and you were self employed or?
DR: Yes!
AB: Self employed. All right. Hold on. We'll take a break here and we'll be back and continue with this story. If you're able to get to my website, you can see the photographs, not just of the creature we're talking about, but of the craft that it came in as well.
AB: My guest is Dr Reed, Jonathan Reed. So you hit this creature. You struck this creature in the head. Then what? Did it go down right away?
DR: It fell to the ground instantly and as it fell, it SCREAMED ...just terrible scream like nothing I had ever heard before!
AB: Not that I've ever crushed a human skull, Doctor, but you wielded this stick or this branch, stick I guess, like a baseball bat, you said, and you hit this creature. Did its skull... Obviously, from the photograph of the injury, the skull was breached.
DR: Yes, it was.
AB: Did the skull breach more easily than a human skull would have under the same conditions, do you think? I don't know how hard you swung that thing.
DR: Well, I swung fairly hard. I'm surprised I hit it because I'm not an athlete, but it hit hard enough to tear a hole in the skin and in the bone material approximately an inch and a half by an inch, exposing some of the inner material.
AB: In the picture, it would appear there is blood. It would appear to be blood. It's red, some kind of red material. Is that what we're seeing in the photograph, blood?
DR: Yes!
AB: Blood! All right, so the creature screams this horrible scream and goes down and no more movement from it?
DR: No more movement at all.
AB: It's dead!
DR: As far as I knew, it was dead! At that moment, I was an emotional basket case!
AB: I can imagine you were! All right, what did you do next? All right, let's go to the third picture. We've got 2 pictures of the creature, then we've got a third photograph of what to me, appears to be an elongated, black, triangular ship, literally hovering in the middle of the forest. How far was this from the creature?
DR: That was probably 75 feet away from where the creature was.
AB: 75 feet.
DR: Through some brush and kind of down in a little valley on the other side.
AB: All right. The photography is difficult because we look at the plants in the foreground and it makes the ship look small, relatively small.
DR: Well, the dimensions of the ship were relatively small and I'm not necessarily saying it is a ship. I'm saying it is something.
AB: Ok, yeah, WE made that assumption, you're absolutely correct, that it was a ship. It is an object.
DR: It is an object which I ended up calling the obelisk, for lack of a better description. But it was a large, wedge shaped, black, triangle. It had six sides. It was flat pointed in the front and flat pointed in the back. It wasn't symmetrical. It was longer on one end than the other.
AB: That's clear.
DR: It was made of a material that felt like granite, or marble.
WS: Did you touch it?
DR: Yes, I did.
AB: Oh, my God! So you walked up, after the creature is dead, lying there on the ground.
DR: After about an hour.
AB: An hour?
DR: I heard something. I heard something that sounded like a hum.
WS: You remained in that location for an hour.
DR: I remained in that location for over 3 hours.
WS: What did you do during this time?
DR: I was so sick. I basically couldn't move.
WS: What were your symptoms?
DR: Well, I had definitely an emotional breakdown, as far as not knowing what had happened. At first, I thought I had killed a child. And I had to make sure that this wasn't a child.
AB: I understand.
DR: And after I had seen what had happened with Suzy, a dog that I'd had for years, I was very, very upset. I was very disturbed. I was sick to my stomach. I would try to stand and walk. I was dizzy. I would become nauseated. I barely could stand. I would sit back down. I would cry, trying to figure out what was happening.
AB: And I suppose you had, no doubt, some guilt about having killed. You killed a some kind of creature.
DR: Exactly! Well, at that point, I don't know that my mind was trying to logically assume that this was a creature. All I had known was that everything had fallen apart. And I felt totally disoriented.
AB: And so for now, you were just sick and in shock, and after an hour, you recovered enough to begin to notice your surroundings beyond this creature in front of you, and that's when you noticed, what you're calling the obelisk.
DR: I noticed a sound in the air that almost felt like it touched my skin. It almost gave me goosebumps. And I followed that sound because I thought it might be another person. I thought it might be someone who could help me. Because I needed help. At that point, I needed help. And I went toward that sound thinking it might be another camper or something in the area. And as I went farther and farther, I started to feel like there was something else there, another presence. And to describe that is very difficult. It's almost like static electricity, when you walk into a room when it's very, very cold outside, and the hair stands up on the back of your neck.
AB: Yes.
DR: That's what it felt like. And then I backed away. I was afraid. I didn't know what was going on. And I kind of ran down the path and again fell to the ground. I was sick. I got up, after some time and walked back. And from a different angle, I started to see through the bushes that there was something through the bushes, through the trees, about 50 feet from me. And I went forward and saw this thing. And the first pictures I took, I wasn't sure that they would come out because of the way that the air felt.
WS: What were the pictures, the first pictures that you took, what were they of?
DR: Of this obelisk, and I started to think, well, maybe I should back up. Maybe if I got further back, something would come out, if there was something going on with static electricity or something.
AB: Or radiation or whatever. So you went back from it and I have some of those other photographs, folks, by the way, so...
DR: Right! Now, the photograph that you have up on the web, Mr Bell, is one that I took probably 30 feet in front, to one side of the obelisk. And I was almost on the ground, because I was trying to get a clear, steady exposure. The tree canopy in that area was extremely dense.
AB: Yes, I can see that.
DR: And it was an overcast day.
AB: I can see that as well. For those who can't clearly see it, through, just barely through some of the trees, you can see the sky and it was clearly gray and overcast. No question.
DR: When I was taking the pictures, the exposure time was probably at least a half a second.
AB: Do you still have the negatives?
DR: Yes, absolutely!
AB: You do. Are you willing to have the negatives examined?
DR: Yes, I am.
AB: You are.
WS: Did you take any pictures of the creature and your dog?
DR: Well, my dog was no where to be found. My dog was gone.
AB: The dog literally, if I heard his description correctly, sort of... How did you put it, Robert?
RR: The dog collapsed into herself.
AB: Into herself.
WS: And then disappeared?
DR: And just disappeared into, what I found on the ground to be looking like some type of white ash.
WS: Did you get any of this?
DR: No, I didn't. Considering everything that had happened and what continued to happen, I'm surprised I was able to walk out of there.
AB: Yes, so am I.
WS: I am too, yes.
AB: The next thing I'm curious about, if I can ask, is the obelisk. You were there for a total of 3 hours, found or noticed the obelisk after about an hour, took photographs. What happened to this obelisk? Was it still there when you left the area or...
DR: Yes, in fact, when I walked up to it, it was making a humming sound and when I touched it, the sound stopped. And as I pulled my hand back, I noticed that it changed its tone slightly and it became less irritating, the sound. Almost a harmonic that felt like a much more pleasant sound.
WS: When you touched it, how did it feel?
DR: Like stone.
WS: Cold or warm?
DR: Cold like ice.
RR: It was like ice and it also, when it was slapped, when Jonathan slapped it, absorbed the sound completely.
AB: You slapped it?
DR: Well, I went to push on it and I slipped and I used my other arm to kind of stop myself on the edge of it. And as I hit it, it made no sound.
WS: Did it move when you hit it, at all?
DR: No! It was almost like it was anchored to the air.
AB: How far above the ground was it actually hovering?
DR: Approximately 36 inches, maybe 48 at the most. Now, the dimensions. I don't know if I mentioned them. That it was approximately 2 and a half feet high, about 4 feet, 4 and a half feet wide, and about 9 or 9 and a half feet long.
AB: That looks about right according to the adjacent foliage. I had had comments from people who were assuming this was a ship and they said, well it's too small. The other comments that I've had, Doctor, it's an extremely clear photograph and people have said, with respect to the craft and the photographs of the creature, how were you able to keep your senses under such extreme conditions to take such steady, clear, photographs? I mean, most photographs we get from people who have submitted of UFO's and/or creatures, people constantly complain they're distorted, they're blurry, they're foggy, they're indistinct and people in this case are complaining about exactly the opposite. Your pictures, they say, are too damn clear. How did you do that?
DR: Well, after spending a couple of hours, emotional, upset, and sick, I think I stabilized a little bit and quieted down and thought about the fact that I had my cameras and that no one would believe what happened to my dog.
AB: You had not only a 35 mm camera, which is understandable because you were on a hike, but you had some sort of video camera. What did you have with you? What kind of video?
DR: I had a regular 8 mm video camera, a few years old.
AB: Right, I have one too. They're small. They're handy.
WS: You took video of the object as well as photographs?
DR: I took video of the obelisk and of the extraterrestrial.
AB: And I have that video, Whitley.
DR: And if you look at the video, you can tell I wasn't perfectly calm.
WS: This is very important.
DR: I was VERY upset.
AB: Far from it, far from it Whitley.
DR: In fact, I do have the audio of that if you would like to hear some.
AB: I do. I'd like to hold it for after the top of the hour here.
DR: Ok.
AB: Whitley, you said the video's very important?
WS: It's very importent because if he has photographs with negatives and also video, then this object probably was physically there.
DR: It WAS physically there!
WS: Yeah, in other words, this is no trick, Art. If he has those. If those 3 elements all exist, then that's very, very (strong?) evidence.
AB: Well, I have 2 of them. I have the clear 35 mm photographs. I have the video as well.
RR: Art, in regard to the photograph, Jonathan did take many pictures and not all of them came out as well. You got some of the better pictures.
AB: I understand. You sent me the best of the lot. How many pictures in totally, Doctor, did you take?
DR: I probably took 20.
AB: Twenty photographs, all right, of which I have 6. Some did not come out or not come out well, I take it.
DR: Right, that was at the site. Like I said, there was a lot of problems with the darkness and the canopy was very heavy. I'm surprised that any of the video came out at all. In fact, if you listen to the audio, I am so distraught because through the viewfinder of the video camera, I could not see the obelisk half of the time.
AB: Actually, you kept saying, is this damn thing working? ...Is it working?
DR: Well, now that after realizing what happened, all I can assume is that the closer I was to the obelisk, the more distortion would happen with the video camera.
AB: You were in a clear panic, there's no question about that. The video, at times, is broken up. I would assume some sort of electromagnetic disturbance.
DR: The video was checked by an expert and it was found to be not tampered with.
AB: Ok, so in other words, whatever disturbance was there was externally caused.
DR: Yes. And the camera is working fine. It has been checked also.
WS: What does this look like, this disturbance?
AB: It looks, Whitley, like, you know, a tracking problem when you've got a severe tracking problem on a video tape that you're playing.
WS: Oh, sure, I know exactly what it is.
AB: Now, in a lot of cases, the Doctor was in a flat out panic and he was running at times and then at other times, it was pretty jerky. But there were several times where he got still enough for at least a few seconds to get good, clear shots of the obelisk and certainly many clear shots of the creature.
DR: The further away I was from the obelisk, the less problem there was with any kind of distortion.
AB: So it was generating something.
DR: Oh, we figured that out because by the time I walked back, probably 150 to 200 feet up on the top of the ridge, I could get a clear shot of it down in the valley.
AB: Robert, when were you told about all of this?
RR: That was about a year ago.
AB: Why, Doctor, did you go to Robert?
DR: Robert's name was given to me as a person that I could trust to help write this information. I'm not a writer and I needed some help to make this into a real, tangible, full start to finish, episode so that I could tell the story. It's time people know that we're not alone!
AB: I understand. I'm honored that you would choose my program and I would ask you why you did, why you choose to exclusively break all this here. Why?
DR: Honestly speaking, Mr Bell, a few years ago, I didn't know anything about you. And a friend of mine told me during this episode that you were someone who dealt with this sort of thing often.
AB: It is true.
DR: And could get the information out regardless of what it was and let the people decide for themselves. This is why I have come to you.
AB: Ok, well, that's a good answer because that is exactly what I do. All right, Hold on. My guests are Dr Jonathan Reed, who had the encounter, the documented encounter with an alien creature, and you've not yet heard the whole story by a long shot; Robert Raith to whom he went to try to chronicle this story, Whitley Streiber, himself, a longtime contactee and author of many, many books on the subject, and I'm Art Bell. What you're listening to is breaking news on Coast to Coast AM.
AB: All right, here we are, Doctor, you have had a period of time with the obelisk. You have spent... The alien is dead. The dog is dissolved in some way. I'll use the word "dissolved," I don't know if that's proper. But gone. This obelisk remains hovering in the air, the one we have the clear photographs of. You have 2 hours now, with the obelisk and with the dead alien. What's happening in these 2 hours?
DR: Well, I'm trying to regain some type of composure, trying to make some sense out of this, trying to think what have I done? What will happen to me because I've killed something?
WS: Doctor, could you go back to the moment when you realized it wasn't a child and tell us what went through your mind at that moment.
DR: Fear! I realized that this wasn't what I thought I was looking at.
WS: Did you touch it at that point?
DR: Well, all I did was walk up to it. I was within 3 feet in front of it when I had knocked it down. And at that point, once I realized that this wasn't a mask. It wasn't human but it was human-looking. It was human in size. It was human in the dimensional shape.
WS: It seems on the pictures on Art's website as if it's wearing something.
AB: Yes, that was one I was going to get to. The head, the shots of the head of the alien were very clear and they moved down into what almost appeared to be some kind of black cloth or clothing. Can you...
DR: It was a black type of suit made of some type of material that nothing that I had ever seen, almost a tight fitting body wrap type of material. Almost like spandex.
WS: Was it a tailored suit or more like...
DR: It was tight fitting. All the way tight against its neck, torso, legs, feet. All one. All one piece, as far as I could see.
WS: Was anything wrong with its neck at the point that it was laying on the ground?
DR: Was anything wrong with its neck?
WS: Yeah!
DR: As in, broken?
WS: Well, yeah!
DR: Not that I could tell at that point. Later examination, it didn't appear to be broken.
WS: Because in one of the photographs, I think the first photograph that's on the website, it sort of appears that there's something wrong with the neck. It's hard to tell if it was broken or not. I just wanted to know.
DR: As far as I know, it wasn't...As to another examination that happened later.
AB: Now, let's get to that. The time passes. Finally, you somehow, I guess, collect your senses and decide what your course of action is going to be. What do you do Doctor? Do you walk away and as you walked away, or did you...?
DR: I started to walk away. I started to grab my pack and think that it was getting late and if I was going to get out of the woods before it was dark. I was sick. I didn't know if I was going to get sicker. I had injured my hand that felt like a burn.
WS: That was when you slapped the object?
DR: Yes.
RR: Jonathan also thought of burying the creature.
DR: Right, at that point, I thought, well, if maybe I should just bury this. Maybe I should just hide it.
WS: Were you concerned about things like the law or?
DR: Well, everything went through my mind, thinking about what have I done. Is it a crime? Is anybody going to believe this? Can I hide it from animals so that later I could come back and show someone? I didn't have a shovel. I didn't have any tools with me. I had a pocket knife. At that point, I made the decision that maybe I could cover it with the thermo blanket that I had and put rocks around it and possibly preserve it until I came back with some help.
AB: Makes sense, all right.
DR: At that point, I started looking for rocks. Every rock I found was buried so deep or connected to other rocks. There wasn't anything I could find to do it. I made a determination that if I rolled it up, if I actually pushed this being into the thermo blanket and rolled it around it, that maybe I could put branches against it or something else. Moving it, I found out that it was extremely light. It had very little weight to it. In fact, I rolled it up like a burrito in the blanket. And as I picked it up to carry it to find some place to put it in the area, I just started walking.
AB: So, in other words, it was actually light enough so that you could carry it reasonably.
DR: It was approximately 50 pounds.
RR: There was also a very strange time element involved. With contact with the obelisk originally, he had ripped his shirt. Something happened with the obelisk. Now, the hours that should have existed no longer existed. In other words, he was there. He knew he was there or felt he was there for at least 3 hours, but what ended up happening was that only a short period of time had gone by. And there was a time where it seemed he was actually somehow enveloped by the obelisk. Because when he finished with that episode, his shirt was no longer torn.
WS: We'll get to the shirt in just a second. That's fascinating! But let me ask you just for clarification, did 3 hours pass on your watch and some of that time you can't seem to account for, or did it seem like 3 hours but actually turn out to be a much shorter time on your watch?
DR: The watch I was wearing stopped.
WS: (Laughs) Naturally!
DR: And I don't know exactly what time...
AB: All right, then, if I understand this correctly, you had the alien wrapped in the thermal blanket that is, by the way the background for the photographs that we've got here, is that correct?
DR: Correct!
AB: All right, and you carried this creature away wrapped up, meanwhile in the background, the obelisk, this thing is still hovering in the air and that's the last you saw of the obelisk.
DR: That's correct!
AB: Have you since been back to that location?
DR: We went back. I took my best friend back the next day. And we went back to this location and there was not one thing out of place in this entire area.
AB: All right, you then hiked, you've got how many hours to get back to your vehicle?
DR: About an hour and a half.
AB: So you carried this creature for an hour and a half?
DR: Yes, stopping along the way.
AB: Stopping, ok.
DR: I was thinking about putting it somewhere, hiding it somewhere.
AB: But you kept going?
DR: I just kept going.
AB: All right. You got the creature into your car.
DR: I threw it into the back of my car.
AB: And drove where? Straight home?
DR: I drove home.
AB: Drove home. Now, when you got home, what did you do?
DR: Well, driving home gave me some sense of serenity, like I had come back to the real world. And home felt like comfort.
AB: Yeah, but with a bit of a souvenir.
DR: Right, and when I got home, I sat in my carport looking in the rearview mirror seeing the silhouette of my burrito in the back, thinking what am I going to do with it? You know, I'll bury it tomorrow. Maybe all this was a bad dream. And so after that, I went in the house for a while and I decided I can't just leave this in my car. I even thought about the fact if somebody broke into my car and found this, that would be a surprise. So I decided that I would put it in my garage in my freezer. As odd as that sounds, at that point, I felt it was a piece of meat and I needed to put it somewhere outside and I could lock the freezer.
AB: Preserve it. So you locked it in your freezer.
DR: Yes!
RR: Yeah, he really didn't want to bring it into his house.
AB: I understand, believe me. Looking at it here, I understand that completely. So how long did it spend in your freezer?
DR: Until the next morning when I decided to look again.
AB: Now, at what point did you bring the video camera out again and the camera and begin to take photographs of this creature. When did that happen?
DR: That was approximately 9 hours after the event and I had gotten it home.
AB: The video, Whitley, and I hope you don't mind, Doctor, my describing... The video shows the creature wrapped up, as you said, like a burrito and it actually starts being unwrapped. In other words, he starts unwrapping it. This is now at home and they go through a series of... Was that you in the video, Doctor?
DR: Yes.
AB: Ok. Opening the mouth; moving the face; moving the head back and forth; opening the eyelids. That sort of examination. It shows that in the video.
WS: Who was handling the video camera at that time?
DR: I was.
AB: So you must have had it on a tripod or something?
DR: Actually, I duct taped it to the side of a ladder and when I shot the section where I showed the wound, I put it on top of a box.
AB: On the top of a box. Yeah, that's right. It would be fairly close so it would... Yeah, that makes sense. So, here we are. You've now documented by video and by 35 mm photography the creature and what you call the obelisk, not necessarily, folks, the ship. That was OUR mistake, interpretation, calling it a ship. It's not necessarily a ship. It was something, an obelisk, something. So Doctor, who did you tell about this?
DR: Well, the first thing I did after I got home was try to regain a little composure and then I sat down and thought about calling my girlfriend, which I called but she wasn't home. And then I called my best friend and I had left a message with him. I said, call me immediately as soon as you get home. He called me later and I told him to come over. I had something. I needed to see him and I showed him.
AB: That must have been something, some experience for your friend.
DR: Yeah, to put it lightly. I was still quite sick at the time and I think it was traumatic from every standpoint.
RR: Gary was a bit more functional and Gary was the one that pretty much said this is an alien. It was something that Jonathan absolutely did not want in any way to think of. That's not where he wanted to go.
AB: Ok, now, we've got another witness, Gary, somebody named Gary. That's your best friend, right?
DR: Gary was my best friend for over 18 years.
AB: All right, are you still in contact with Gary?
DR: Gary has been missing for the last 2 years.
AB: Oh, my!
DR: If you're out there, Gary, you know how to get a hold of me.
AB: All right, do you suspect Gary's on the run, has met with foul play, what?
DR: I don't know. I do know that we went through an enormous amount of incidents after this.
WS: What sort of incidents?
DR: Incidents where we were trying to find out to do with this. We were trying to make some sense out of it. I had basically decided that I had killed something, that I could be very, very seriously in trouble. Gary kind of took the lead and said, "No, this is something else! This is something very important." And then I said, "Well, we need to go to the police." He said, "No, we don't! That's the first thing you DON'T want to do!" And then we went down that path of, "what do we do? who do we talk to?" We made several phone calls to some of the bigger organizations such as MUFON.
AB: You called MUFON?
DR: Yes.
WS: Which MUFON did you call?
DR: Peter Davenport in Seattle.
AB: You called Peter Davenport?
DR: Yes.
AB: And what response did you get from Peter?
DR: Well, when we were calling, at that point, we were calling fairly anonymously. We were saying, "What if we had this?", similar to the facts that we sent to you, Art. We were gingerly trying to test the waters of where to go.
AB: Yeah, what if we had a body?
DR: And some of the response that we got was very disturbing from the standpoint of people wanting to come and tear this thing apart and tear your lives apart. And do you have this? Do you have that?
AB: Well, let me ask you right now. Two questions: 1) Do you retain any physical evidence at all?
DR: Other than the photographic evidence?
AB: Yes.
DR: No.
AB: All right. How long did you retain custody of this alien body?
DR: 10 days.
AB: 10 days. On the tenth day, what happened?
DR: Well, I think there needs something to be said prior to that.
AB: All right.
RR: Go ahead Jonathan.
DR: We had brought this extraterrestrial home in the event to have something done with this. Something so that somebody could put some sense to all of this. I didn't want to kill it, but I did it out of fear. I did it out of frustration from what I had just witnessed and I felt terrible. I still do. I brought it home, saved it. I put it in the freezer. We went through the processes trying to find out what to do and who to go to, who to talk to, and no one would believe us. No one would believe the seriousness of this.
WS: You mean among your friends or...
DR: Among some of the professionals that I talked with.
WS: The UFO people?
DR: Yes, I talked to several people through the university. I talked to a professor that I know, known specifically as a friend. I tried to set up meetings with him. Things started to happen. He told me he would come and look. I then received a phone call several hours later and this was predetermined that he would come over and look at this. All of a sudden, his tone changed and he canceled the appointment. No reason. No reason given. This started to happen one after the other. Then, we realized there were people watching the house.
AB: Doctor Reed, at that point, hold on please. Oh, my! Doctor Jonathan Reed is the man you're listening to at the moment. Robert Raith is here and so is Whitley Streiber. I'm Art Bell.
AB: Back now to our guests, Robert Raif, Dr Jonathan Reed, and Whitley Streiber. Gentlemen, welcome back. I want to ask one quick question of you Doctor and you Robert. The 3 photographs that I now possess that I've put on the website; Not everyone has a computer and we have a newsletter that we publish. We have put your copyright, your names on these photographs. Would you give us permission to put these in the newsletter as well?
RR: Yes.
DR: Yes, absolutely!
AB: Thank you gentlemen! All right. Your house, Doctor, you become aware, is being watched.
DR: It's being watched, it seems, like every time we have made arrangements to go anywhere. We're being followed. This escalated to a degree we'd both become very paranoid and also it became dangerous.
AB: In what sense?
DR: Well, we almost got run off the road twice by a vehicle, a big dark, blue van. The incident that I was trying to (tell) before the break, is that after we did the topical examination and I made the video, a few days went by where we started to set up some appointments to do another examination with some, like I said, another professor so that I could make some choices on what to do. When some of those arrangements were canceled, I was very frustrated. I was angry and in preparing for that, I had put a table out, and a place to do this examination. At that point, I put everything away and was closing things down in my garage when I noticed a sound. The sound coming from what I thought was underneath my freezer. A thump sound.
AB: Oh, boy!
DR: I thought it was the compressor going out.
AB: Right.
DR: And I thought if this happened, I'm going to be stripping my refrigerator and putting this in there. So I thought it was rats.
AB: It sounds like something from Alfred Hitchcock! All right!
WS: I'm telling you, this is chilling! It's really chilling!
DR: At that point, I went to investigate. I found that there wasn't any rats and the compressor seemed to be ok. I heard sounds and I opened the freezer and "Freddy", which is what we took to calling him, was NOT dead.
AB: What?
DR: He was still alive! ...and moving and screaming!
AB: At this point, I'd be screaming!
DR: I slammed the freezer and ran into the house.
AB: Oh, my God!
RR: Jonathan?
DR: Yes.
RR: Do you have that audio handy?
AB: Oh, yeah, yeah! Now, this is audio from... The totality of the video tape runs about how long, gentlemen?
DR: About 6 minutes in each segment.
AB: And it should be said, this was taken in the woods, most of it. And it was jerky and you were running at times and other times, you stopped for at least a moment and got a good, clear shot and then running again.
DR: Yes, exactly! I think what the audio Robert is speaking of is the audio that I recorded of the alien screaming.
AB: You have that?
DR: Yes, I do, in my hand.
AB: You have that in your hand?
DR: Yes, I do.
AB: All right. Would you please go ahead now and, though it's not the best way to do it, hold the phone up and play that audio for us from the tape?
DR: Ok. It's the sound of opening the freezer, the noise, and closing the freezer.
AB: All right! Go right ahead!
DR: (Plays Tape)
AB: All right, now that was somewhat hard to distinguish. Was that a scream? Certainly, there was a background... I could hear something open. I could hear...
DR: It was just the sound of this extraterrestrial screaming, (with) opening the freezer and closing the freezer.
AB: You must have a good strong heart, Doctor!
RR: Naturally, that wasn't taken the first time he had gone out there.
DR: No, that was done later.
RR: ...to check on the (?) when you heard the thumping noise in the freezer. That was done later when Jonathan actually attempted to communicate with the alien.
AB: Oh, you did?
DR: Well, I attempted to see if it was still alive.
AB: My God! So now, you've got a LIVE alien with a terrible head wound in your freezer which has apparently come back to life or maybe it never died. It's hard to say which.
DR: Well, obviously, it didn't die.
AB: Yeah, obviously, it didn't die. And obviously, the freezer didn't kill it.
DR: Well, that's kind of a mystery. I would have assumed that it wouldn't have an excessive amount of air and (with) the freezing temperature, that it would have died.
AB: If it wasn't dead, it would be dead.
DR: But I did notice during the examination, that the tissue had changed around the wound. It seemed almost like it had adhered back in position. Now, I took that as just the way things freeze. You know, when you freeze something that is wet, it sticks.
RR: ...the freezer was, actually for some reason, the elements of the environment were somehow conducive to its healing somehow with...
DR: Hey, I don't have all the answers.
RR: Yeah, but somehow, it was allowing this creature to heal and there's no way of understanding exactly how that could be and what it really means.
AB: God!
WS: I'm speechless, frankly!
AB: So am I! All right, so the last time... This is something the police would ask. When was the last time you saw this creature?
DR: Nine days from the date I encountered it to the date I no longer had it.
AB: All right then, I'm wrong or I'm not understanding the time line. Tell me how many days it was when you opened the freezer and this alien was alive.
DR: Three and a half days.
AB: Three and a half days. Three and a half days?
DR: I had taken it out of the freezer several times during that time.
AB: I understand.
DR: Ok, doing the examinations and put it back in and wrapped it back up.
AB: I can imagine that. And then, from the time it apparently reanimated. I can't believe I'm using that term. And you slammed the freezer shut and locked it, there were, what, about how many more days elapsed?
DR: Well, it was a total of about 3 and a half days to that point.
AB: Ok, did you open it again or did you...
DR: Yes, I did.
AB: And what did you observe?
DR: Well, I had observed that it, in fact, was still moving, but very quietly. Not as fast. Very, very slow. It seemed to be injured. It wasn't in good shape.
AB: Not after being in the freezer that long!
DR: Well, or hit on the head.
AB: Or hit on the head, right!
DR: But it was alive and that is about the time when other things started happening. Which eventually, I lost control of, of the body."
AB: Okay, how did the body come up missing, when did you suddenly realize it was missing, what circumstances can you tell us about.
DR: Well, during the time when all this was going on, there was a lot happening. We were trying to make some logistics to move different pieces of evidence to secure them in different areas because I was under the assumption that somebody had been through the house and, at that point, we didn't trust anything. So, I divided the evidence into different groups and placed them in, what I felt was secure places.
WS: When you say the evidence, what do you mean?
DR: Photographic evidence. I had different... and some of the evidence which Art has. I had some other video tape of the creature in the garage moving, alive, which I no longer have.
AB: You know Doctor, you're lucky to be alive! Did you ever attempt to remove this creature's clothing?
DR: During the second examination which I made with my friend, we went over the body very, very carefully and I documented everything. We photographed it.
AB: Again, did you remove the clothing, the black clothing?
DR: We attempted to and in doing so, I used an Exacto knife and made a slice in the material and the material almost liquefied as I cut it and rejoined itself.
AB: Oh, my!
RR: There was a point where he went to cut it again and there was a longer cut and then, again, it came together and then on the third time, it just disallowed him to cut it at all. Part of the clothing had actually adhered to the knife and wouldn't let him cut it.
AB: So, when did you realize that the alien was suddenly gone?
DR: Well, approximately the ninth day, we knew that we were being followed, that our houses had been gone through. At that time, I had some other friends helping me and they were in the same boat where they knew they were being watched. People were pursuing them, watching every move. They thought people had been in their house. At that point, I made a trip to secure some of the last photographs that I had taken to another location and at that point, I drove back home. And as I drove home, I realized that there were 3 vans in front of my house and people were going into my house. I continued and never stopped and came back a day later to find my house ransacked and there were holes in the floor. There were holes in the walls. They had gone through everything.
AB: My God!
DR: They had taken all the evidence that I had in my house and I walked to the garage and opened the door which had been removed from the hinges. Set aside. And I walked in and the freezer was gone.
AB: The entire freezer?
DR: The entire freezer was gone. AB: Lord! And so that's the last time you saw the creature!
DR: And that's the last time I saw anything to do with that.
AB: And so, did you call the police?
DR: Considering everything that had happened and I had talked with policemen a few days earlier. That was a futile effort. They didn't believe anything. You know! Little green men!
AB: You say you spoke with Peter Davenport and I spoke briefly...
DR: Actually, Gary spoke with Peter Davenport.
AB: Oh! Gary spoke with Peter Davenport? And when he spoke with him, can you recall about when that was?
DR: Well, it was about 2 days after we brought it home.
AB: So let's see. The original...
DR: It was about the 17th.
AB: About the 17th. All right.
DR: Now, I know at that time, Gary did not give his name but he did inquire about "what if?". You know, what would you recommend doing? I think the information given was, "well, if it's real, you need to contact the authorities. You need to contact somebody who can come down and do this and look at this." We were both doing things at the same time. I was talking to other people through different means. People through the university trying to get somebody to come and look but he said the doors were being closed as fast as we were opening them.
AB: I understand. All right. This is just an amazing story and I think that from here, if you are willing to have the negatives examined, and you say you are?
DR: Yes. I have gone through this process before and I will provide the evidence under the right circumstances.
AB: All right!
DR: I have had three quarters of the evidence taken from me, lost! And what I have left, is very little in comparison to what I had. That is one of the reasons I'm talking with you.
AB: I understand, to get this on the record. Well, what we have won't go away, that's for darn sure! Whitley?
WS: When we examine, the Communion Foundation does work like this when the evidence is so sensitive. The witness comes with the evidence and is there the whole time.
AB: So we will arrange, through Whitley, through Peter Davenport, through MUFON, through other organizations. We have lots of resources. Doctor, we will contact you. We will contact Robert Raith and I guess you're somewhat incommunicado for obvious reasons and we can contact you through Robert. Is that correct?
DR: Yes.
AB: Whitley, anything else?
WS: Only that it's a very interesting and extraordinary story, one that deserves another program and we need to put our heads together and figure out exactly what else we want to ask the Doctor. There are many other points that have not been covered.
AB: I absolutely agree! Gentlemen, both of you, would you be willing to do another program next week?
DR: Yes!
RR: Yes, absolutely!
AB: That's a Yes from both!
RR: We have a phone number and an address too, if people want to write to us and ask some questions.
AB: Ok, we don't have a lot of time so if you have a phone number, go ahead and give that out.
RR: It's the San Diego UFO Society and the phone number is (619)299-9157 PO Box 34351 San Diego, CA 92103
AB: All right! I think for tonight we have as much as the story as we can get. People can follow up with telephone calls and/or by writing. Thank you gentlemen for telling that story! Thank you for your assistance, Whitley! I will reschedule a show for all of us next week to follow up with more questions. Goodnight all!
